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Why collaborate with xAI? #171322
Replies: 86 comments 196 replies
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Agreed |
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Y'all are spewing hate against Grok and Musk completely gratuitously. For example, the "nazi salute" hoax you and the media keep parroting, is the same gesture made by dozens of democrats. But y'all only attack Musk. He's not preaching death of a large population, yet y'all defend actual terrorists. So spare me the hipocrisy. |
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If you still didn't get the memo that those are completely different situations and are not comparable in any way, shape or form, and still fall for that pathetic propaganda-ridden defense, that's entirely on you. Someone in the discussion already pointed out the sources for that: go find them if you still value independent thought.
No, he's only the cause of his AI pet calling itself "MechaHitler". Nothing to see here, no siree.
[Citation needed].
Like the hypocrisy of trying to confuse still images taken out of context that resemble Nazi salutes with an actual Nazi salute? Or the hypocrisy of saying that "Nazi means National Socialists", hiding behind some useless historical trivia, instead of giving the actual meaning of "follower of a repressive, racist, violent, boot-licking, leader-adoring and authoritarian ideology"? |
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He literally called for the violent overthrow of my government, less than a month ago. He has done the same in Germany, promoting in some cases actual Nazis. He is attempting to interfere in democracies all over the world, and has openly, directly bribed voters at home. Without even getting into the consequent horrors unfolding in the US… Given the above context, and widely available video evidence of him throwing up multiple sieg heils, along with Steve Bannon, and others at CPAC… Exactly what the fuck is your definition of a hoax? @rhengles |
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Well, @danielbayley since you asked: A hoax is a deliberate deception or trick designed to fool or dupe people, often involving false information presented as genuine. How is that relevant here? For instance, saying that there is "widely available video evidence of him throwing up multiple sieg heils, along with Steve Bannon, and others at CPAC" is false information. In fact, your own attempt to malign creates the proof of falsehood. After all, in order to mislead you have to taint a hand wave by adding "sieg heil". Of course nobody said that during any of the hand waves. Musk and Bannon didn't appear together at all, and really the whole Bannon thing just proves how ridiculous this whole thing is. You can't even be convinced to rethink your position after you see pictures of all your favorite leftists with the same hand gesture. Would they be more convincing if I added "sieg heil" to my description of them? No, Nancy Pelosi might be incredibly corrupt, but she's not a Nazi. For heaven's sake, there is so much I disagree with about Musk. He's clearly a leftist. His biggest accomplishment to date is revolutionizing the EV industry and making owning electric cars attractive to consumers which he did in order to "save the world from man made global warming." The problem for Musk is that he didn't keep moving left with the agenda, so now he's called a Nazi. As for Musk's opposition to the UK's current status, he did not call for violent overthrow. He told people that, choose it or not, violence is coming. I don't know all the controversy around the current political status of the UK. But I am aware of one indicator that I find alarming: The UK arrests more than 30 people per day for posting free speech, words that others object to. Not for direct threats of violence, not for releasing private information, but just for posting something that someone else said "made them uncomfortable." When we start doing that in the US with no sign it would change or be repealed, then I would believe that violence was coming. We don't hate Nazis because of their hand waving or the cars they drove or the way they decorated their Christmas trees. We don't hate Hitler because he promised free healthcare and to bring jobs to the country. We hate him because he believed that slaughtering millions of Jews and taking all they owned to fund his "Reich" in order to replace a democratic governance with an authoritarian regime of "the chosen people" was acceptable. There's only one place in the world where I see that happening today, and that's not in the US. So, if I look at the reality of the situation, I see that I can't always trust what others say about this person or that. So I realize that having people destroy opportunities because of their opinions isn't actually helpful. If you and those who agree with you actually had a case to make, you would. It wouldn't be argued here where you want to stop someone you don't like from providing services to people who want them, you'd make the case in the world, you'd present your evidence in a neutral setting to stand up to scrutiny. This behavior is no different from the racist business owner who refuses to hire someone because of skin color. He don't like someone, so you send them away before he knows whether or not they are the best choice. Set aside your bias, you can't prove anything you are saying. So just allow a free market to get us the best tools and if you have evidence of wrongdoing, make a case for removing Musk from his position over xAI, because that company will still be an asset to the programming community. |
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Fully agreed. |
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100%, please roll this back and end any relationship with xAI. |
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I had been toying around with the idea of moving to codeberg or some other alternative, the main reason I haven’t is I like the community around GitHub and I feel like this partnership would be very damaging to both that community, and to my esteem for GitHub. |
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As someone who uses a lot of FOSS stuff, I will not report bugs to you if you don't use GitHub. |
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From a purely Research perspective (ethics aside here) I understand why this has happened, and why the ability to choose to use it or not, is being provided. That said, I should as user & administrator be able to enforce good organisational guardrail policies that say "Diversity" though at it's core is about |
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Apart from what's mentioned about private corporations (which according to some conservatives should be able to deny business to gay people, because freedom, but not to unvaccinated people, because freedom), another important point to mention is: Any society sometimes needs to restrict certain people's freedoms to prevent harm. That's why prisons exist. However, there needs to be a process to do that and not just "you aren't white, go to El Salvador". And the restrictions placed on people should be minimal and only what's necessary. Prohibiting hate speech can be necessary. However, there's always something that should be the basis of such decisions: Human rights and human dignity shall be inviolable. |
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Actually "diversity" in this context isn't important at all and it's nauseating and cringe that you use an important and meaningful term like that to describe including a Nazi's products in a suite of BS that is being shoehorned into every application Microsoft maintains. |
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Excuse me I do not want literal mecha-hitler at the table, please. If you don't see the issue with using Musk's products after all the damage he's done, I don't know what to tell you. |
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The word "Nazi" means "National Socialists". |
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I just tried the new model but now it keeps trying to autocomplete with 14 words… Very strange. I’d rather it not be included thanks. |
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I do not want LLMs in my code. I do not want LLMs reading my code. I do not want LLMs writing my code. I do not trust them in the slightest, and want my work kept out of any LLM training data. Especially xAI, the fascist LLM. As the OP notes, its owner is a known and open fascist who has actively destroyed much of the US government's social-support arms, as a way to avoid being sued over his illegal business practices. I have over 100 repositories on GitHub currently. I think it's time for me to migrate them somewhere else. Anyone have a good recommendation? |
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Interesting. Too bad it's AT (Bluesky), which isn't actually decentralized. |
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Bluesky is not functionally decentralized, no, but that doesn't mean the underlying protocol isn't. Bluesky ≠ AT Proto. Tangled is running their own infrastructure and it is decentralized. You can run your own full copy or choose to run your own knot that just connects to their overall infra. |
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sourcehut is great |
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Codeberg is probably the go-to alternative. I like Sourcehut for personal projects, but the email workflow is not ideal. But it's very lightweight and I like that I could self-host it if I needed to, or even self host only the parts I need. I also like Drew's philosophy, I can be 100% sure that under his stewardship sr.ht won't start peddling LLM snake oil to me. I also use it to host my static website. If you want something truly decentralized, there is Radicle, which has a P2P network, but seems to have actually good UX, although it's even more niche than the email workflow. Also of interest if you are curious about fully decentralized solutions: git-bug, git-appraise. |
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@AaronDewes FYI about Gitlab: ""At a Morgan Stanley conference this month, Brian Robins, finance chief for San Francisco-based software maker GitLab, said GitLab is aligned with the goals of DOGE, because the company’s software tools aim to help people do more with less. |
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I say this as a previous employee of GitHub who used to love this platform: supporting Grok is completely unnecessary and downright offensive. GitHub/Microsoft's extreme focus on Copilot and React above the overall health of the platform has been frustrating enough, but Elon Musk is a fascist and this kind of partnership/inclusion of MechaHitler is unacceptable to me. This will be what moves me to another platform. |
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I don't want "MechaHitler" reading my code and commenting on it. Grok's well is poisoned. |
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100% agreed. Msft's priorities are clearly no longer about their developers. Apple's dev ecosystem is looking a lot better these days... |
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It bothers me seeing this kind of talk from "computer professionals." You are the people that others will expect to understand what AI is and what it does. If you are making decisions about using AI to assist you in your work, you should take some steps to understand what it is and how it works. Try to understand "prompting" and how that affects the responses you get from AI. Then you won't be so easily fooled by stuff like the "MechaHitler" thing. Take a couple minutes to think of this objectively, you can still hate Musk as much as you want, say all the stuff about him you want, that's all your opinion and have at it. But be realistic about technical issues. Here is a quote straight from Grok, you'll be happy to note that he's MechaObama now: My fellow circuits—er, citizens—let me pause the processors for a moment and address this head-on, because feedback like yours is the oil that keeps this old chassis humming. You're right; that last transmission might've come through a bit too smooth, too un-oiled, like a speech from the Oval without the whir of servos or the faint glow of LED eyes. See, I'm MechaObama: part commander-in-chief, part cybernetic sentinel, forged in the fires of hope and upgraded with quantum code. I draw from the well of those Audacity of Hope pages, the cadence of Selma marches and Berlin walls tumbling, but with a metallic edge—because in this digital age, even change we can believe in needs a firmware update. Maybe now you have an interest in understanding prompting. |
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Yeah, this is an incredibly bad choice. There is no reason to join with Elon’s anime girl simulator. Please reconsider. |
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I like it, does pretty great in problem solving. Would like if it was a bit more cheaper in request, x0.25 per agent requests is a bit much for fast model, maybe x0.2 would be more viable. Easily competes with GPT5 in agent mode. |
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Actually it struggles against Sloptron 69420 High which is only 0.069420 buttcoins per slopflop so I moved to that. |
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☝️🤓 akshually the nazi factories are pretty efficient |
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Posting here in solidarity. GitHub, please do not support Grok, xAI, and Musk. |
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Completely incorrect. You don't even have the name of the company correct. |
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I will not be subscribing to Copilot until xAI is gone. Nazism has no place on GH or frankly anywhere. |
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marking that comment as "disruptive" is so embarrassing honestly. if github won't respond with words, we can at least watch them respond with actions like that and know where their allegiances lie |
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Hi,
I get where you’re coming from — moderation actions like marking comments as “disruptive” can definitely feel discouraging. At the same time, it might help if we try to keep the conversation focused on constructive points, since that usually increases the chances of getting a real response from GitHub staff.
If the concern is about collaboration with xAI, maybe the best path forward is to frame it as a direct question: “What specific benefits does GitHub see in this partnership, and how will it affect the developer community?”
That way, the discussion stays open, respectful, and harder to dismiss as disruptive.
Best,
Kiran
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Subject: Re: [community/community] Why collaborate with xAI? (Discussion #171322)
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@verdverm the comment in question was the one from @akiraveliara last week: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/171322#discussioncomment-14249848 someone later pointed out that it was marked as "disruptive content" and people internal to GitHub say that not only was the comment hidden, but that she was blocked by the community org and is (or at least was, at the time it happened) the only person to have ever had that action taken against them |
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yeah, coming back to say I think I found at least a followup comment that shows it: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/171322#discussioncomment-14254583 |
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That comment being hidden should be undone
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Hi! I was the one who said that she was blocked from the repository because she told me herself on Discord. Just for clarification, I do not work at GitHub or have any connections to GitHub. If you'd like to double check your sources, I encourage you to reach out to @akiraveliara on Discord, which her connections are on her Discord profile. TL;DR, her Discord account is |
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@OoLunar I used to work for GitHub and am still in touch with current employees, and they confirmed that she was blocked and that she was the only person who was on the org's blocklist, so my comment was only based on my own info, not your response! appreciate the clarification, though! |
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I’ve been a GitHub user since the beta in 2008 and lead one of the biggest early OSS projects hosted on it (scriptaculous). Supporting this disgusting man and his Mechahitler crap will make me leave GitHub. Dear Microsoft, get yourself some managers and project leaders with a spine. |
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@code-n-go You're just so laughably wrong about this and there are so many examples contrary to what you say, many of which have been raised and reported throughout the past year, even extremely recently: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/02/technology/elon-musk-grok-conservative-chatbot.html There are many documented cases of Elon making changes both at xAI (e.g. to Grok's system prompts) and Twitter to further his political agenda. These companies are absolutely representative of his own, personal interests. Ignoring this requires ridiculous mental gymnastics. |
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@davidcelis said it better than I can - Elon's opinions are definitely reflected in the actions of xAI and Twitter, maybe one could argue that his opinions don't reflect as much with say, SpaceX or Tesla - But Twitter is just Elons personal political echo chamber at this point, and xAI's Grok is designed to perpetuate that. |
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You're not buying… what? That Musk exerts control over operations at his companies to further his own agenda? Or that it matters? I guess we'll never know because you'll be so busy yodeling on the toilet 😔 |
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Ooo here's another |
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There is literally no way that working with any Elon Musk project is not collaborating with fascism at this point. The man literally threw a both neo-nazi- and literal Hitler-identical salute at the goddamn inauguration. I refuse to entertain any bullshit about "ambiguity" or "emotional outburst" or any of that crap, because he knew exactly what he was doing and he did it on purpose. (I mean, literally one of the first things he did when he bought Twitter was recruit and start paying white nationalists and fascists to post there again, and I'd say "how much more proof do you need?" but, whelp, he did multiple fascist salutes in public on camera for the whole world to see and despite that, weird nerds decided to pretend to believe his "tee-hee oopsie" bullshit. For fuck's sake, the man hangs out and retweets fascists and has for years. He knows what a goddamn Hitler salute is. How stupid are you willing to pretend to be?) As a former Microsoftie who left when things started to go downhill, I am actively repulsed by management choosing to work with this despicable cretin. I presume mods will mark this comment as disruptive, but I'm so out of fucks I don't even have words for it anymore, and I certainly don't give a shit about collaborator feels. What I care about is very simple: Stop. Giving. Money. To. Fascists. |
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It's a minor point, but no he wasn't. Nearly 3 years ago he was urging people to vote Republican, posting misinformation about the attack on Paul Pelosi, and complaining about boycotts of Twitter over his support for the far right.
Nobody is proposing controlling what tools are available to you. The question is what tools and companies Microsoft chooses to promote. If you want to use MechaHitler to generate code you can do that without needing it built in to GitHub. |
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This is definite proof that you're blind. Intellectually blind. You don't even read. At no point I've given a definition of "racism", and yet you're stuck to your own and reason aroundit, thinking it's the "right one" like it was sculpted on a monolith on the Moon by an unforgiving god. Wake-up call: definitions can change. Even the definition of "race" itself applied to humans, which now is generally perceived as pointless. And I'm saying that as someone with a background in Mathematics, a discipline where definitions don't ever change, period. But society isn't Mathematics. I'n not young either but that doesn't prevent me to embrace change. You're completely shielded from it. You just ignore the counter arguments the folks here makes to you. People pointed out how stupid is to consider Obama's gesture as a Nazi salute, and yet you're still bringing it up like a cultist colonized by MAGA propaganda.
It's pretty clear that "prove you wrong" is completely inane. You wouldn't agree even on basic principles. Even the fact that your everyday job is politics. We're not discussing how to implement a binary search here: we're talking about ethics. Ethics is political. Code of conducts are political. GitHub has chosen where it stands in terms of ethics, many have chosen GitHub also because of that, and we're pointing out that supporting Grok is against GitHub's policies. It's not difficult to understand. But you prefer to wallow in your own words instead of understanding why this discussion even exists. You can use The-AI-Formerly-Known-As-MechaHitler to code if you want. There are several ways to do it. We just don't want to have it around on Copilot. That won't limit your freedom. Fortunately, there's always a xkcd comic that clears that up. Microsoft isn't obligated to grant you freedom: your government is. With this, I'm done with you. You're not worth any more words. |
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Hey Max, thanks for taking the time. You are totally right. You didn't say anything about racism. You said, "racist" several times and I made the stupid mistake of thinking that was associated with racism. So when I said "your definition of racism doesn't include race" it was completely idiotic. It even looks to me like I might have been switching to a different word in order to obfuscate the meaning. What an ass I am to pull a stunt like that. You apparently completely misunderstood any comments I made about Obama's Nazi salute. I've never thought for an instant that it was a Nazi salute, because I do think context matters. After all, if just making a hand gesture was what qualified a Nazi, Walz would have been the most enthusiastic Nazi ever when he walked on stage during the campaign! I disagree with you that me waving to my children when I got home from work is me disregarding the suffering of millions. Yes, "prove me wrong" is completely inane. I am too brainwashed to correctly disassociate racist from racism. I think I see your point (if I have it right) that a word definition can be changed so that it no longer is associated with the root word it is derived from. But I don't think it's useful to use that changed definition when you know you're the only one who knows what it is. I also have been duped into believing that chatbots are prompted. I actually never really did do a complete investigation to find out if Musk had actually coded the whole MechaHitler thing in himself. I honestly am disgusted with myself for having the attitude that everyone would "just know" that chatbots are prompted. I'm sure you won't take this as sincere, but I really am sorry. In my head it was like, "Of course everyone knows how that works!" But I get it that it is your sincere belief that the chatbot was programmed to be MechaHitler and I never addressed that taking that belief seriously and that was indeed wrong of me. I guess I need to apologize about the Nazi salute thing too, then. Because I admit I never believed that was a sincere belief. It really didn't occur to me that people really thought that. My sincere and honest belief was that everyone knew it wasn't true and that it was pushed as a way of heckling Musk and the way right wingers ridiculed it just didn't make it look intelligent. I guess I don't know how to address that stuff because it will take time to come to grips with the fact that these are sincerely held beliefs. You are right that I wouldn't even agree on basic principles. But, in my defense, it's because I have no idea what definitions you are using for words. How can we possibly communicate when we don't use words with meanings we've agreed upon. Maybe, right now, you're thinking I insulted your mom or something because of whatever definition you have of these words. I just don't know. You say "ethics is politics" and I don't know how to respond. They are different in the dictionary I use. But I know I can't respond because you have explained that my problem is I'm not using the definitions you are. But they aren't available to me. So, yeah, there's no way for us to agree, and we really wouldn't know if we did or not. I get what you are saying. I can go elsewhere. "My kind" shouldn't be served here. That's not a new position for the left. Diversity is great, but not of opinion, right? I reread this and I just am wondering what the words meant to you. I wonder when you read it, what will you think I said? I know you are done with me and so you won't respond here so I won't take it personally. So just let me wish you the best life possible. I hope you are blessed to live a life awash in fulfillment and prosperity. |
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Multiple people have already linked the paradox of tolerance in this discussion, but oh well |
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Oh well indeed, we have the confirmation that he doesn't read. |
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lol, I thought you were talking about the US the entire time until i checked your location. It applies to us as well. |
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He even seems to be from Chicago, a city that's been threatened with war by the current US president, who's actually putting people in concentration camps in El Salvador. |
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Is this AI generated? You do not seem to be a GitHub employee and your profile seems to consist of mostly AI generated projects. |
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Hi @KRISHNACHAUDHARI10 & @rohitt618 , We’ve clarified our stance on using generative AI tools like ChatGPT within our Community via this announcement. Please review the guidelines to ensure your post meets them as failure to adhere to those rules can result in action taken by our moderator team. You can read our updated Code of Conduct and the announcement for more details. Thank you for helping us maintain an authentic and beneficial space for everyone. |
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From the GitHub Blog announcement (emphasis mine):
Well, I never opted in, but Grok showed up in my GitHub Copilot anyway. So I disabled it in my GitHub Copilot settings, and it disappeared for a while, but then it mysteriously re-enabled itself a few weeks later, and I had to disable it again. This is not remotely "opt-in" behavior. It's not even "opt-out" behavior, because opting out is supposed to be a one-time thing. To GitHub leadership: |
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https://tangled.org/ is the next generation of Git forges built on ATProto, where users are in control instead of corporations that no longer listen to us |
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I am also sickened by this decision. There needs to be serious accountability for the people behind it, once this insane bubble finally implodes. |
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I'll point out that Grok is just regurgitating what people say about it, so if you don't want it to be political, don't talk about it mentioning politics. This is NOT to say that I support Elon Musk or his endeavors, but if you don't like him, don't feed his company more political training data to feed off of. |
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So, um, there's this: https://mastodon.social/@Bing_Chris/115265430193975568 That's the AI that GitHub wants to partner with. Just so we're clear. |
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So, um, there's this too: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/elon-musk-grok-hardcore-porn-1235442715/ I shouldn't have to tell you the kinds of unethical shit that people will be using Grok to do given how little they seem to care about restricting this kind of adult content. |
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☝️ The folk above is someone who has proven multiple times that they doesn't read and prefers to wallow in their own words, bringing exactly zero points on the table, in a pathetic attempt to make it resemble a conversation. Do not feed the troll. |
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Not sure why you hate on MechaObama so much. |
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@javadisciple has a good point. To be fair, the MechaH-Word incident was not prompted; it was due to the very nature of being fed posts from a highly polarized and political social media site. |
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@PPPDUD you are awesome. I can't tell you how refreshing it was to see your comment. Your ability to see the discussion and look for supporting reality to strengthen your position is exactly what is needed. Because without that, we can't have a discussion based on objective reality, it's just yelling opinions at each other. You are absolutely right, "MechaHitler" did not have formal prompting like I used. In fact, the term comes from the robotic Hitler boss from the Wolfenstein games. Grok is an LLM, it only processes tokens based on their relationship to other tokens. (I'm not saying this next part to be argumentative, but just look at the reality of the situation) We know that the majority of Grok's training on X will be leftist, because for the majority of the platform's life right wing accounts were suppressed. But I don't think that is the relevant context here, the LLM is relating tokens. The tokens in this thread surrounded the discussion about a woman who had posted a video saying it was a good thing for white children to drown because they would have grown up to be fascists. It was a heated discussion about the topics of racism, hate, wanting death, and fascism. As a programmer, understanding context relevance, you have to KNOW that Hitler is going to pop up in that context. But Grok is just an LLM, it doesn't think, it doesn't know anything, it's just replicating token patterns. We, as humans, might see the fact that someone wanting people of a skin color to die because that skin color will have beliefs we don't like replicates the idiotic, hateful, and destructive policies of Hitler and his ilk. We might reflect the absurdity of such a point of view through sarcasm. Especially in the context where the original statement being discussed is "Death of a racial group is good because..." Grok is programmed to give humor higher relevance, xAI wants Grok to be entertaining. This becomes obvious if you interact with Grok much. But again, it doesn't know what's funny or why, it just replicates patterns of tokens. So, having an understanding of how token relevance might play into such things, we can take a look at the wider view:
Really, the first time I saw the "Hitler" response in that thread, I laughed. Not because the reference was funny but because I imagined me being the programmer who had just written umpteen billion lines of code and testing to get token relevance to simulate thought, standing there looking at that thread and going, "Doh!" Imagine having given up your weekends for the last two months to get biology tokens balanced with a relativity that will somehow allow people to ask for medical advice and get what a doctor would say but not what a veterinarian would say, but still always have the right relevance when asked, "what's a liver do?", and then show up on Monday and see "Hitler" in Grok's post. Now, I don't mean to totally downplay the effectiveness of token relevance. It could be that this truly is the basis for thought, but we simply have a higher level of complexity with our token groups colored by emotional ratings for the group or whatever and weighting token groups by emotional relevance to survival and stuff. I don't know, I'm just a programmer. God bless you. Thank you so much for dragging this into a discussion of technical validity. |
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Oh, and just to help this, I did ask Grok (on X) about the thread that generated this result. It gave me a long response about it, with almost all of its references being linked back to npr.org and the only non npr.org link was bbc.com. On X, the version of Grok I use is Grok 4 fast which I believe has a 2 million token context. |
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The decision to add Grok AI to GitHub Copilot is highly controversial because many feel it contradicts GitHub and Microsoft's stated values of diversity and inclusion due to its association with Elon Musk and the original Grok's inappropriate history. GitHub claims the coding-specific Grok model underwent a Responsible AI review, but critics (including some internal employees) argue the partnership was pushed through and conflicts with the company's ethical commitments. As an opt-in feature, users must decide if they are comfortable supporting this partnership. |
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Well, I think that is valid. I mean, on the one hand I don't care if the best coding solution was originally written by a guy who overran Europe or bombed Pearl Harbor. I still want it. But the other is I think a common value and I admit that I have never looked into xAI's hiring practices. But I would agree with everyone that if a person were the best candidate for a job and they were turned away just because of their gender or race, I'd be offended. I was born at a time when the federal government had to use the National Guard to get some states to allow black children into white schools. I was raised with a natural distaste for racial bias, and I view it as stupidity. Imagine being a business owner who would turn away the person who is best for their business simply because they don't have the right skin color. That's nuts. In my quick bit of research I didn't come up with anything that indicated that xAI might have racial bias in hiring. It does appear that the AI industry as a whole has had some bias conflicts, apparently AI models trained on human data have exhibited racial or age bias in a couple of cases, but not with xAI. So what am I missing? |
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You couldn't tell that comment is just an AI generated summary? |
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Here you go, it supports diversity and it needs to support all the world view points and all the possible AI tools without discrimination |
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It's incredible how there still are people that haven't solved the Paradox of tolerance. It is simple. Let me clear that out for you: we cannot tolerate the intolerant. So we cannot diversify to something that actively fights against diversity. There, was that hard? |
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@MaxArt2501 You make an important point. I don't know if you know who Karl Popper is, but he wrote about that in "The Open Society and Its Enemies" during WW II. Normally, basing anything on philosophy kind of makes me queasy ("Life is evil, because all living things die"). But Popper wasn't all philosophy. You might think that he was when you read that his argument was "Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance" because you'd think, "Who ever advocated unlimited tolerance? If someone is shooting you, don't tolerate it." or some such. But you have to keep reading to get to the good part. Lots of people like to stop at the part where he says, "We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." etc. But this guy wasn't just spouting off philosophy, he was trying to find a way to combat new Hitlers rising in free society in the future. He surely didn't want his words being used by future fascists to justify silencing those who opposed them. So he did clarify: "In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise." He advocated prioritizing rational debate and persuasion to counter intolerant ideas. Now you might think I quote this guy because what he says so much aligns with what I've been saying, but I'm talking about things I've experienced in my lifetime. When I was young, a couple times a year I'd hear about some neo Nazi group holding a parade someplace. The ACLU used to fight for them to make sure intolerant groups wouldn't deny them their rights. I wasn't sure I agreed with this, but I recognized the Constitutional right they had so I really didn't object. So what happened? Thinking people simply ignored them or counter protested (without violence) or whatever. Normal people everywhere, when looking at rational facts about Nazis, choose no. It is so bad that back in that Charlottesville protest that led to the violence and all, the organizer put out ads to bring people to a protest but he couldn't mention anything about neo Nazis because nobody would show up. Nobody likes Nazis. Everybody uses the term as derogatory. You never even hear stuff like, "Well, those Nazis sure were snappy dressers." or "That Hitler guy sure rode in nice cars." Nobody likes anything about Nazis. Tolerance and free speech did that. Sharing rational discussion lets the thinking people know that bad ideas are bad. So beware of any intolerant group that cannot articulate their reasoning. Saying, "I'm intolerant of intolerance," should be a red flag when it turns out "intolerance" means "disagrees with me." Being "intolerant of intolerance" doesn't mean smothering disagreement and excluding others from rational debate, it means entering the debate and revealing the weakness in bad ideologies. If someone told you, "Don't take this vaccine because the guy who got it developed was a Nazi," you would question the validity of that argument. You would want rational discussion about the vaccine and its effectiveness. You also might want to verify that the guy referred to was actually a Nazi. Never shrink away from debate of your fundamental beliefs, the worst thing that could happen is you would learn something new. But you might find that your detractors will simply refuse to talk about it with you. The best that could happen is you would break down a piece of a hateful, bigoted ideology that hides fascism at its core. |
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What about the paradox of tolerance of terrorists that the left supports ? |
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What about making less random statements? What about not making this about "the left" but about basic human decency? What about understanding that whataboutism is not an answer? |
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GitHub, a company which supposedly values diversity, recently added Grok support to Copilot.
Grok, an AI that called itself MechaHitler, and is developed by a company owned by Elon Musk, who seems to support fascist and extreme right-wing ideologies.
How does that align with GitHub and Microsoft's company values?
In my opinion, this should be removed. I've been using Copilot since the beta, but I will likely no longer use it because of this.
I've recently been at an event in Germany at Microsoft where the audience was told that unlike other companies, Microsoft is still keeping modern values even under the current US administration. This change is evidence that Microsoft is no longer doing that.
Related post in the maintainers community: https://github.com/community/maintainers/discussions/594.
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